Interviewer: This afternoon, I'm with Brandi Lawless. I'm going to have her introduce herself, but we're going to explore how she chooses to use flipped classrooms. Brandi, can you tell us a bit, not so much about your research but who you are, what department, what kind of courses do you teach?
Brandi Lawless: Sure. I am an assistant professor in the Communication Studies Department. I teach several classes. I teach communication and culture. I teach qualitative research methods every semester, organizational communication, et cetera.
Interviewer: Fantastic. Thanks so much. The first question I have for you is, why did you decide to start flipping? Specifically, what kinds of problems did it seem like that might solve for you?
Brandi: Well, I read just a brief description about what a flipped classroom is, and I had never heard of it, and the description said, "Moving some things out of the classroom in order to make time for more activity-based discussion and hands-on activities in the classroom." Just with those two lines, I said, "Oh, I really need to do that in my qualitative methods class," because there's a lot of skill-based learning in the class and not a lot of time to apply it.
I thought I could do something where the students learn about some of the step-by-step skills outside of the classroom, and then have them bring something to the classroom where we practice the method. In a methods class, I really wanted them to be able to use the method, not just at home, and then I see it in their final paper, and I say, "All along, you haven't been doing this correctly," but getting the skills down class-to-class.
The way that I did that was by asking them to do their own semester-long project, but as a way to practice the skills to do that, we did a group project first where the whole class did one study. We did a focus group for the study in class. We wrote interview guides for the study in class, and we did coding for the study in class, we transcribed the study in class. I wouldn't have had time to do any of that had I not moved some mini-lectures outside of the class and have them come prepared to do the skill once they got to class.
Interviewer: Wow, that sounds exciting. That's a big difference. I'm going to come back to a little bit of what you said in just a moment, but can you describe for me what your personal experience was like the first time you flipped? Was it easy? Was it hard? Did you go crazy? What happened?
Brandi: Well, my personal experience was easy in some ways and difficult in others. I knew how to use the technology because at a previous institution, I had taught a fully online class. I knew how to use Camtasia, which is a program that can screen capture and record my voice. I thought, "Since I know how to use that software, I'll go ahead and use this." But then, learning the differences and really the nuances and balance between an online class, a face-to-face class, and somewhere in the middle, this flipped classroom, which is not a hybrid class, but something very different, was the challenge.
The first time I flipped the classroom, I moved 10 mini-lectures outside of class, and I realized that that was too much. The second semester, I switched to five. I'm constantly changing which components of the lectures I move outside and what is best for the students in order to grasp skills to become prepared in class to do the activities.
Interviewer: Now I'm going to come back to a little bit of what you just said also in just a moment. As best as you know, what was the experience like for your students the first time around when you did all 10 of these mini-lectures?
Brandi: They liked the flipped classroom because they liked trying things out in class, but they thought that 10 mini-lectures with quizzes - because that's how I assessed - was tedious.
Interviewer: Got you. So then, was your decision to go from 10 to 5 driven by their unhappiness, or was it by other conditions?
Brandi: It was for two reasons. One thing, having 10 mini-lectures and quizzes inflated grades. [chuckles] Having 10 little quizzes that they can get extra points for just by really watching a video and being able to reiterate inflated grades, and I thought, "Well, that's unnecessary."
Number two is, I really started to think about the difference between talking about concepts and talking through concepts. There are certain things that you can talk about, they're pretty basic, and then students can grasp them. There are other concepts that need to be talked through. The differentiation that I make is something that really needs discussion and a lot of back and forth, perhaps it's a controversial topic. You can't really put those online because you miss out on something in the classroom.
Interviewer: Sure. How did you decide when you were going from 10 back to 5? I think you say you switch a little bit even now, not in terms of 10 and 5, but which ones you're doing-- What's going on there? How do you decide which ones? Is it always based on things you need to talk through? Because it seems like you kind of nicely cut them in half.
Brandi: I nicely cut them in half and I did that in two ways. The first is that I really thought about what the students would benefit talking through and having a little bit more of a discussion. The second thing is assessment. I asked students, "Is there a lecture that you wish would have been online? Is there a lecture that you wish we would have had in class because there are always those lectures that students are like, "Oh, this is pretty common sense. I'm just taking notes and there's not a lot of critical thinking to it," that could have been online. When it came to ethics, I really wanted to dig in, and I wished that both parts of the ethics lecture were in class.
Interviewer: That makes a whole lot of sense. When you're doing these assessments, the feedback from them at the end of the semester, in the middle of the semester?
Brandi: Both. I do a mid-semester assessment and then an end of the semester assessment.
Interviewer: Fantastic. Now, you gave us an idea of what you wanted to do in class. That was the problem to solve, they could really get some practice. Given that you've gone from 10 to 5 and given what problems you wanted to solve with the practice in class, do those five gives you enough time to accomplish what you wanted in class?
Brandi: I think they do. The first time around, I had a lot of extra workshopping time, and I still have that worked in. What I tell the students is, "You've earned this in-class time to work on your final projects and have me be there to walk around because of the effort that you put into those five online lectures." There was a lot more dead space the first time around that I did it, and I don't think they needed that much workshopping time, I think I found the right balance.
Interviewer: Got you. Now when you're doing the five also, you're giving them some sort of quiz before they come into class?
Brandi: I am, but I'm thinking of switching that in two ways. One is that I'm exploring a new program called Adobe Captivate. You can put interactive activities in the videos so they could do quizzes or games in the video, and the program will capture their responses and show that they actually watched the video.
The second way that I think I'll change this from quiz to a different type of assessment is at the end of my videos, I might say, "Now that you've learned how to code, code one page of your transcripts and bring it to class." I'll know whether they watch the video and I can assess it in: A, that they brought something to class; and B, it was correctly coded or not.
Interviewer: It's more authentic in the sense of related to where they're really going academically.
Brandi: Right. Exactly. I'm rethinking assessment.
Interviewer: Those are good ideas and I understand why you would be rethinking it. Even using the quizzes that you've started with, did you notice students came into class beyond doing the quizzes, but they came in the class really better prepared, like they seem to have really taken in the information and ready to work with it?
Brandi: Yes and no. In the assessments, learned that students like the fact that they can listen to that lecture whenever they want and as many times as they want, but that doesn't necessarily mean that every student will take advantage of that. I had to start every class with, "What are some things that you took away from the online lecture? What questions still remain, and how does that transition into today's reading?"
Interviewer: Got you. I'm going to ask you a question which you really already answered, but I just want to explore it a little more. Really, one of the most common questions I've heard from faculty about flipping is that the major concern that comes up is how do you get your students to complete their flipped homework before coming to class? 
It seems like there's this latent fear that if you flipped the class, students aren't going to do whatever is relevant outside of class: watch the video, listen to the audio, all of that. I know you've given them a quiz, and even if you change that assessment, does that seem sufficient or what's been your experience with students actually being as prepared as they could be? Students vary between themselves.
Brandi: I included in my syllabus a number of points for what I call short assignments. Some of the short assignments are completed in class, but when you have a flipped classroom, you put some of the short assignments outside of the class. So I assigned 12, and I end up counting 10 so that I dropped the two lowest scores. If they want to get those points, they have to watch the lecture to figure out what the short assignment is and to come prepared to class.
They also quickly realize that if I'm asking them to complete something in order to try a task in class, they're completely lost if they didn't watch the video, so they want to become prepared because they get the reward of doing something in class that otherwise they would have had to do at home. All of a sudden, they can use an hour to code data or research in class, or if somebody listening to this teaches public speaking or something like that, all of a sudden, they can write their outline in class rather than have to do it at home. It's a reward for them as well, I think.
Interviewer: Yes, that's fantastic, and it makes a whole lot of sense. Another thing that obviously comes up for a lot of faculty is the technology bit. I'm not a tech person. I know you mentioned that you started learning about Camtasia and some other things before you came to USF. That was great that you had that skill, but before you learned those skills, would you have described yourself as a geek or a techie person? What was the learning curve like for you?
Brandi: I'm not a geek, I'd say that I'm technologically savvy, but not as savvy as some people can be. I have a slightly above average technological skill. Since I've been doing the flipped classroom, so many people are interested in it that I've been presenting on it at conferences. That means that I'm interacting with other people who have done flipped classrooms, and I'm learning that there's so much more technology out there. You can really start wherever you're at.
There's something very basic, everything from iMovie, I think, to Adobe Captivate, which is what I'm about to explore, which isn't very intuitive, so I'm watching the lynda.com videos. There's something for everyone, and our resources at USF provide us a lot of guidance. If we want to use the CIT, the Center for Information Technology, they're willing to definitely walk you through any software that you want to learn.
Interviewer: Yes, they're fantastic. It's good to know because that's a big-- I think the first fear, really, is students won't do the work, but the second one is, "How can I do this stuff?" That's really good to hear. Are there any key issues, or confusions, or misunderstandings about flipping that I really haven't asked about, but in some way, you'd like to convey to faculty who might be gently considering doing this in the near future?
Brandi: Sure. When I talk about flipped classrooms at conferences or to people who are considering it, some of the other concerns, one that comes up a lot is, well, if students are learning online, won't they just skip class? That's a huge misconception. You're not replacing lectures in class. You're moving 5 to 10 minutes or 10 to 15 minutes online, and making room for in-class assignments to which they must attend and complete in order to get credit, so I'm not reversing things.
There's this idea that I'll put a lecture online and then I treat my classroom like an office hour. That's not what a flipped classroom is. You're really extending what you do rather than replacing what you do in the classroom. I'd say that's the biggest question that I get, the biggest misconception.
The other one is, how do you assess it? I think I've talked a little bit about that, but attaching assignments that students have to bring, the students really enjoy it. Every semester, the assessment shows that maybe one or two students didn't love it because they just prefer lecture, but all of the students appreciate the time to work on their final project or some other skill. Then I think they're really more competent in the skills that we're teaching them as well.
Interviewer: Yes. Well, I could easily imagine that. Overall, what's been the most rewarding thing for you about flipping?
Brandi: The most rewarding thing since I flipped in the qualitative methods class is the final product for the students. It's something that students are proud of. They realize that they had to put more work in, but the output is there. Every semester, I have students saying, "I never thought that I could produce something like this."
The paper in the class is supposed to be something like 12 pages, but every semester, I get 20 to 25-page papers of people who are like, "Once I learned the skills, I got into it, and here's everything that I'm laying out now." The quality of the final product, the quality of learning is sincerely appreciated and recognized by the students.
Interviewer: Wow, this is very impressive. Well, Brandi, thank you so much for taking a bit of your time because I know this is a big topic for several faculty. Just being able to hear the story of how a few of you are already implementing flipped classrooms will be of great value.
Brandi: It's my pleasure, and I'm happy to answer any other questions that folks might have.
Interviewer: Great. Thank you.
[00:15:11] [END OF AUDIO]


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